Eventually she got the measurements she wanted. No one else attended and we didn't have a service. But the consultant had found more spots on the heart and the measurements were the same. And so we talked about it euphemistically, never saying the word "research". I think I don't everything just seems a real blur because it was, it was such a strange experience. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. The baby was kicking so hard that I began to believe him. Emma was 20 weeks' pregnant when a routine scan revealed that the baby she was expecting had Down's syndrome and heart problems. You've had a scan, you've had the blood tests, you've been good. This time, they discovered the baby has a two vessel cord (only one vessel from placenta to baby instead of two) and I've been monitored to make sure the baby grows properly and kidneys aren't damaged. As though I went power mad for a week, killing my innocent unborn child, and now I am tainted for ever. And I could see, before she even said anything I could see that there was something wrong with the heart. I broke down and started hitting my disgusting body that had done this. Actually you could tell from the brain development as he scanned up through the chambers of the brain, that one quarter of the brain, one chamber was not evident. We were bound to each other because of the blood that was on both our hands. There was a very marked lack of amniotic fluid which made it difficult, not even for the scanners to see, that made the picture of the scan look very, very different. I would be put to sleep, and when I woke up I wouldn't be pregnant any more. Some people had underestimated how serious any abnormality found at this stage could be for the baby. You can change your cookie settings at any time. If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your doctor, midwife or hospital immediately. You get extra care and monitoring as appropriate and baby is proactively treated. Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and over again. And it was just a bit of a shock because it's not really what you want to hear - you don't really expect that. We spent the next few weeks in a happy bubble. So she said, 'Come back on Monday. When I told him what had happened, he refused to believe anything was wrong and said he'd sort it out when he came home. I felt empty, scared, guilty and incredibly heartbroken. And you know, we were laughing and joking. And this baby sort of floated, and occasionally there was a slight movement, but it was very you could almost see that he was really poorly just from looking at the screen. . And it turned out the baby's heart wasn't forming properly, the chambers weren't forming properly. So we had to go in and out a couple of times, and we were just waiting around for ages and ages. All women are offered a dating scan, and an 18- 20 week fetal anomaly ultrasound scan, in line with NICE and UK National Screening Committee recommendations. Has anyone been told the wrong sex at 20 week scan? Another sick joke. The first result, which tells you if the baby has Down's syndrome, is ready in three days, but the other chromosomal problems cannot be eliminated for up to three weeks. I didn't think my instincts were worth much. So that was it. I didn't have a clue. It was the end of January, very end - about the 29th - I'd gone into, I'd gone into 5 months by then. And, for a few hours, I'm convinced I've made a terrible mistake. That he - I think I was 21 weeks and 3 days, and he was coming up at 19 weeks and 4 days, or something like that. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. I didn't want to go through anymore scans. Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. 20 week scans look for 11 different anomalies as a rule, however, indicators (markers) are not terribly reliable and in all the literature I found, the targets set for stonographers look like they only pick up around 50% or less of these variants. All pregnant women should be given the booklet by their midwife or GP Screening tests for you and your baby by Public Health England, which gives detailed information about the types of scan offered and what they are looking for. To help us improve GOV.UK, wed like to know more about your visit today. Had 34wk scan last week and all is well - of all the babies found to have a two vessel cord, was told less than 6% experience any growth issues etc. unfortunately the 20 week anomaly scan can pick up serious issues, hearing heart beats at midwife appointment doesn't let us know what's going on inside the body in detail. I had to stop myself from yanking out the needle. It's, I mean you can't tell from these scans what you're looking at really, but I remember thinking, 'it just doesn't look quite right' or something, but I didn't give it much thought. It's a bit at the back of the brain and - no I can't remember what it is - it's called, it's something that's called Dandy-Walker mal, The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). But even if I was there, I still think I would have wanted to see the detail on the scan. But now that's changed. All the time, the baby was kicking and I felt like a murderer waiting to strike her victim. We walked all the way home. It felt like a lifetime to reach our 12-week-scan. In some very serious rare cases, where no treatment is possible, the baby will die soon after it is born or during pregnancy. Having the scan does not hurt but the sonographer may need to apply slight pressure to get the best views of your baby. As I lay down, and the sonographer started, I could see there was something wrong. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of such a late termination, but had assumed it would mean some kind of operation. I wrote a few things down last night when we were trying to go over things, just to remind myself. For women who have been given distressing news about their baby during the scan, there should be a health professional available to provide immediate support. And then all of a sudden, I was still laughing and we were all very upbeat, and then suddenly, he suddenly said, but I was still, still laughing, and he said to me, 'Oh, there might be a problem, there might be a problem with the, I think this baby has hydrocephalus'. So I took the test and jumped in the shower. I was becoming numb to the whole process. I let out an animal scream and [wife] kind of leapt onto me on the bed. For example, the babys brain, kidneys, internal organs or bones may not have developed properly. So we gave up and said we'd arrange the funeral ourselves. No sort of questions about, 'Do you want to know whether it's a boy or a girl?' There is more detailed information about the main conditions that are looked for during this scan on NHS.UK. I then had to wait in the room along with many other patients for an hour so they could observe me. A black and white picture of your baby will then be seen on the ultrasound screen. It is impossible to escape them and each one underlines your loss. I was becoming numb to the whole process. A long process of blood tests, scans, doctors and hospitals. Those two weeks were agonising for us both. We had so much power, we could decide that this little thing should die. As I left the room to compose myself. Some of the other conditions, such as heart defects, are more difficult to see. Usually, sonographers will ask a senior sonographer colleague to confirm findings and this should be done immediately. You have rejected additional cookies. Being generous and kind generally happens only when you're happy. The results come in stages. Read full disclaimer. Most scans are carried out by specially trained staff called sonographers. And I, and, I felt the weight of deciding what to do about it. Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. Registered office: Nicholas House, 3 Laurence Pountney Hill, London, EC4R 0BB. Three midwives came and went. I think I was about 20 weeks cos they, the hospital I think did the 12 and the 20, that was their standard thing and, yeah, so I got the 20 weeks one. Limitations of the 18-20 week scan Perhaps because we are alone in this, it has brought my partner and me very close. No one else felt him kick. My partner really wanted me to, and by that time I had no sense of what was right or what I should do. Living in this world must be unbearable for them. . So he went out for a walk. I have horrible thoughts. It was another consultant, who said, "I'm afraid I have some bad news - your baby has Down's syndrome." And they took me into another room. The week that followed was an agonising wait. And it's like, I really wanted to see it and I didn't, and it was it was very mixed. Severe chromosomal conditions such as Edwards' syndrome are now often picked up in the first trimester antenatal screening but itwill usually be more obviousat the 18- 20 week scan, though usually a firm diagnosis will not be made until one or two specialists have weighed up all available evidence about the baby - which usually means that another expert needs to scan the baby again, or until the woman has had an amniocentesis. By 7pm, I still hadn't delivered the baby. And at the end of the day however much we talked about it - that it was going to be the two of us to make the decision and me to actually you know, go through it and decide that that was what was going to happen for him - and I just, I didn't want to do it. Still, the consultant thought things would be OK. But you know I knew we had, we had to make a decision that was right for the baby as well. He's now had the all clear and is wriggling round on . This image shows a baby's face and hands at 20 weeks, and gives you an idea of what you'll be able to see at this scan. If an abnormality is confirmed or suspected, referral is usually required, although some obvious major fetal abnormalities, such as anencephaly, may not require a second opinion (this should be decided by local guidelines). The thing that I have a very strong memory of is this child's face in amazing detail. The hardest thing I have ever done. I mean, you just, you're just overwhelmed, it's so much fun. I felt more informed, and I felt that that was what I needed in my head to see you know, that I've got to accept now that this, all these things are real on the screen and this was really my baby that's suffering all these things [sighs], but I was sad as well. I sat and waited to be called for my scan. I loved him instantly and didn't want to let him go. And so we had to go out a couple of times, [wife] had to walk around, and she had a drink of water, which is supposed to sort of change things inside, or help the baby turn around or something because the sonographer couldn't get the measurements she wanted. Within two days I was waiting in my local EPU unit for further tests. Specialist scans are performed in specialist fetal units and if clinicians feel that there might be problems scanning will be done up to 32 weeks. Where we were living then at the time you only had a scan at 20 weeks. Possibly with hindsight we could have been more worried about it, but was probably a good thing we weren't, because we weren't worried about anything basically. And I couldn't escape the feeling that I was being selfish. In this information, the word we refers to the NHS service that provides screening. So and you could see the exomphalus, this little pouch, which was obviously just the intestines where they are. Somehow, I walked from the sofa up to the bathroom and told my partner. I went home feeling crushed; Sam and I both felt helpless. Reading individual, real-life experiences can be a helpful resource, but it is never a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment from a qualified health care provider. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here), tbh, they never give you good news at scans. The first midwife seemed to understand what we were trying to say, and said she would ask the doctor to come and talk to us. And it's, I can't remember exactly what it was now, it's about where the brain is supposed to form. If one of the conditions is found or suspected, the sonographer may ask for a second opinion from another member of staff. But it is a soft marker for Edwards' syndrome. I've still had no cramps or bleeding so fingers crossed everything is ok I just couldn't believe I fell down the stairs, I can't remember the last time I ever did that! There are no known risks to your baby or the mother from having an ultrasound scan but it is important that you consider carefully whether or not to have the 20-week scan. By this point I had stopped bleeding, this caused problems. Your mind has closed to the possibility that there could be anything wrong. We've got the same battle scars. . I just want to be normal again. The doctor told me he was 98% sure this was a failing twin pregnancy. Desperately trying to hold onto the glimmer of hope we'd been given. So obviously quite relaxed. But at the 20 week scan, which was on a Wednesday, we saw the nurse at the local hospital, the sonographer, and she did a scan and she found that the femur length was quite short in the, in the fetus. It was probably all right but hadn't had any fluid in it at the moment. Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans Thinking back, I don't know how we left without him. On January 18, my baby was born, at 23 weeks - a little boy. But it was very evident. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). This one cannot show you anything, that's what's inside your mind. However painful and traumatic the labour was, it was better than what would happen at the end of it. You could see her face, and the major aspect that was, that was the indication of what was wrong was the thickening at the back of the neck in this instance, which, when you're looking at a fetus is, you know, sort of half a centimetre thicker or not is completely immaterial to me, and would look like a completely normal neck, but from the point of view of the consultant was severely abnormal. It was positive, and I felt elated. I thought surely everything is ok, as they couldn't detect twins the week before. She endured many agonising rounds of scans and tests, and unfortunately met with some unhelpful attitudes from some healthcare professionals. And, sometimes, I wish I had invited my whole family into the hospital room to see him. I had my little leaflet, printed off leaflet about choroid plexus cysts. I had no idea if we were doing the "right" thing. After that I got, I, it was about in, in 19-, hang on a minute, 2001 I got pregnant again, slightly unexpectedly. We understand the real meaning of "shit happens". And they, sort of two of them were looking at the scan machine and then they sort of switched everything off and said, 'Oh, I think we have, might have a problem'. Back on the EPU unit, a doctor organised for me to be admitted into the ward, to take the medical management under supervision as the sac was now to big for me to safely miscarry on my own at home. But worse was to come. Because, when you're angry with the world for dealing you such a shit time, you begin to hate the people who populate it. So even if anomolies are found, they don't always mean a problem.. x. I had issues at the 20 weeks scan with both of mine. Then I picked myself up. At which point they turned round and said, 'Well, there is something very seriously wrong with the baby, we don't know exactly what, but you do need to have a more in-depth scan at your regional hospital to find out the detail'. You may need to have a full bladder when you come for the appointment. Again the legs were quite twisted, they said that the baby's sternum was very short - things weren't in proportion you know - the head was quite large, the neck was very thick, there wasn't really like a neck as such it was just things were kind of - there were lots of things that obviously the consultant could see that we weren't aware of. It is extremely rare for these pregnancies to reach term as they typically spontaneously miscarry early in pregnancy. When I think about how long it took them to deliberate ultimately, maybe not, but it just felt like a bit of a fast food situation, didn't it? I think the whole experience has made me a pretty nasty person. So we decided that, to have the scan and we went along I think early in the week for that, and spent quite a lot of time with the consultant after that. So we left it there, and we didn't actually think that there was anything really to worry about after that scan. And so began the most bizarre day of my life. My partner spent the weekend trying to convince me that things were OK. He felt strong and fit and healthy. My partner tried to remain calm, and at my request rang my mum. The only thing you're thinking now is the birth, and what if something goes wrong in the birth? Like many things, the theory is very different from the reality. I just feel very unlucky. So had to come back in a week's time for a scan, which again is quite a common thing I found out. The doctor wanted to do another blood test to confirm a significant drop in my hormone levels. I was willing the results to be normal. And the first few things they said it didn't sound as thing, as though things were terribly wrong. This publication is licensed under the terms of the Open Government Licence v3.0 except where otherwise stated. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, 'it didn't look good' and that 'my womb looked raggedy'. So choroid plexus cysts on their own, no problem, but if there's something else wrong, then that's a problem. Apologise for somehow doubting their right to be in this world. Several parents said they would have preferred being told something, even it was vague. It was horrible. It felt as if we'd gone underground, that we were part of the criminal fraternity. Do you have any thoughts about that? For example, some babies have a condition called open spina bifida, which affects the spinal cord. Forcing my hand to my mouth to take the tablet was probably the hardest thing I have ever done. chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet. I had no issues at my 20wk scan with DD - and neither did any of my antenatal group (9 mums). Except for the persistent, nagging doubts. We had the baby cremated. And I felt like a murderer. I was disgusted - disgusted that such a tablet existed, let alone that I should have to take it. But it's bloody hard being miserable the whole time. It is essential that all practitioners performing fetal anomaly ultrasound screening should be trained to communicate abnormal findings to women, as such information is likely to have significant emotional impact. So carried on with the plans, and, you know, planning for the, another baby to come along and then we went for a 20- week scan which is obviously the big one and very exciting, seeing all the arms and legs and once again everything was going fine, 'Look here's the baby, here's the length of baby'. It was exactly like the labour I had with my first child. Tears started to roll down my face. Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. As I lay down, and the sonographer started, I could see there was something wrong. . And nothing prepares you at all. Soon, the doctor came and inserted the tablets that would induce labour. I had an appointment with my consultant 2 days later, and again he said, you know, 'Very common - shouldn't worry about it too much, you know, if, the problem is if they find anything else wrong'. The baby was very, very small. Saturday came. But he was not sure. She didn't say at the time that it was a major problem or that it was something to watch out for. And so, yeah we got to, carried on with the pregnancy, kept seeing the consultant, kept sitting in the waiting room outside, because there was a terribly long waiting time sometimes, depending on what time you had the appointment. And, faced with feeling sorry for myself or feeling sorry for my child, I know which I'd choose. Slightly marked from our peers. So I was, they couldn't actually finish the scan then, the baby was moving around too much, so they couldn't scan the heart and the stomach. Why me and not you, you bastard? This scan takes place between 18 weeks and 20 weeks 6 days of pregnancy and is commonly called the 20-week scan. I had a horrible feeling of relief. It was a bit worrying but on the plus side I got an extra couple of scans and an extra couple of pictures. My wife had been very, very healthy, more healthy than the first pregnancy, and of course was shattered by the fact that the news, the news was appalling, very serious faces. I couldn't really believe what they were saying. I used to think the feeling of your baby kicking inside you and the sight of a foot poking against your skin were the most fantastic things in the world. Christmas came and went in a blur of emotion, it felt so wrong to be celebrating when we were in such turmoil. BabyCenter. All my plans were beginning to fall down. The contractions started very quickly and within an hour my waters had broken. Looked exactly like our two year old as a baby. In some cases concerns in utero fix themselves sometimes needs treatment. I'd had the scan in the scanning room, I can't remember what they call it now, it's silly, it's gone from my head. During the examination, sonographers need to keep the screen in a position that gives them a good view of your baby. As two youngest siblings, we were both permanently stuck in the irresponsible, childish role. 15/02/2014 08:02. You may like someone to come with you to the scan appointment. But you could see there was something wrong? I get terribly irritated by my close friends and family. Several women had taken young children with them to the 20-week scan because they expected to see 'nice pictures of the baby'. Try to relax and take it easy. 'Yes, if that's okay with you,' kind of thing, like you do. I think what everyone is saying is that most likely outcome is that there are no problems at all. Could she possibly have something that's not been detected? I had to take a tablet there and then, under the supervision of a nurse, to end the pregnancy. Sam followed and I broke down. We had the 20 week scan yesterday and got some devastating news. We left the hospital a couple of hours later. Next most likely (but actually in the minority) they identify something which whilst not 100% healthy is treatable. As I say, I'm not a very nice person at the moment. Sometimes specialist scans such as 3D scans, or MRI scans, are used to examine the baby in greater detail. To view this licence, visit nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3 or write to the Information Policy Team, The National Archives, Kew, London TW9 4DU, or email: psi@nationalarchives.gov.uk. As I was called for my scan I was nervous and emotional. Away you go'. It's part of our family. The same sense of expectation. And I said, I was still laughing, and I thought he was joking with me, and he said now I sort of could tell from his face that by that point he wasn't really joking anymore. Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier diagnostic tests (e.g. Can you remember that minute. We had to discuss what we wanted to do with the little body after delivery. As I waited for the doctor back on the EPU unit. The appointment usually takes around 30 minutes. It would be a personal tragedy for my partner and me, but that is all. And with each one we had to have the same conversations. Parents get a chance to emotionally adapt to news and plan. And at that point I don't think we, I don't think we realised that there might have to be a decision, because we'd talked about it with, with Down's and the other possible problems, but at this point it was, well okay what can be done to fix the problem - because yes the heart's not developing properly but there must be something we can do. Not marginalised into being a victim. So I trusted him. SO much upset and needless angst has been caused by 'soft markers' found at scans. We left for home feeling completely numb. And she sort of got up and walked out of the room and called someone in. The sonographer will be able to tell you the results of the scan at the time. Instead, we were shown to a room slightly away from the rest of the ward and the midwife stayed with us to talk through what was going to happen. My partner went out with him, wanting to see him. The hormone levels had dropped, but they wanted to scan me again. There was an extra digit on one of the hands. I was told that while bad news at the 12 w scan is often of the life or death kind, bad news at the 20 week scan is often of the 'needs an operation in childhood' or 'needs to wear a brace for a year' kind. The "why me?" Others said they were shocked because all the early diagnostic tests (e.g. There's nothing wrong, you know, we've had all the tests, everything's fine,' and being very upbeat about it all. We had amnio and then spent a week in absoute anguish waiting for the outcome which was no trisomies. I felt I needed proof of what was wrong before I take such a huge decision and that I couldn't do it based on what someone had written on, on the paper. He looked excited. Again, we weren't understood. I was given a leaflet and told to return four days later to see the consultant. We couldn't say we'd lost the baby, because he was still kicking away, but we couldn't pretend everything was fine, either. By the time I left the hospital, I was in shock. Have I misunderstood what's going on?' I give obsessively to charity, especially those linked to sick children. Many people were deeply affected by their experiences of the 20-week and subsequent specialist scans. I know it is still early days. So at least then we went to that next stage prepared for the worst really. He felt doing more blood tests would only cause me more discomfort and false hope. I don't know how we got through the next couple of days.
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