I come from a military family and have been raised pronouncing Lieutenant as Leftenant. dailyinfo[31]=' 420628 Sapper William Bayne YOUNG 63rd Field Coy. -----END REPORT-----. Powered by Invision Community, The West Africa squadron in the 1840s; naval medicine; First World War, especially in poetry, art and fiction, 6th Btn South Staffordshire Regiment, 46th (North Midland) Division, Liverpool Scottish Is it like . The most common pronunciation I've heard - without my being sufficiently erudite to use the phonetics described earlier with any confidence - approximates to 'l'vtenant'. English Language & Usage Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for linguists, etymologists, and serious English language enthusiasts. The meaning of lieutenant differs in different militaries, but is often subdivided into senior and junior ranks. The reason why people from the commonwealth say "lef-tenant" can probably be attributed to the U being misread as a V during the middle ages, which in turn developed into and F sound. advantages of masking animation. MzE5MGNmYTY0MDE5ZjA5MzQyNzBiMmNiN2E4YzI1OGU0MjhlZDc5NjZhODBh Royal Marine Light Infantry who died 17/03/1918 BELLAVISTA OLD BRITISH CEMETERY Peru ' the fifth c. Sc. N2IzYjQ4ODUyMzYzYWZjMWQ0Y2M5YzI4MjI0YjUyNmYyMTBmMmQyOWZlNDFj dailyinfo[21]=' L/32287 Driver John Frampton GAZE "O" Bty. I looked at her carefully, Madam, I told you we have no ..CABBAFG.E cabbage ! She glared at me You idiot, theres no F in cabbage! I replied very slowly, Madam, thats what Ive been trying to tell you for the past five minutes!. 5th Bde. Royal Engineers who died 31/01/1919 COLOGNE SOUTHERN CEMETERY Germany ' Why does everyone say Colonel as "Kernel" or Coxswain as "Koksin"? I like all different accents from any country - it's interesting to me. dailyinfo[7]=' Lieutenant Thomas Sydney Ough DEALY Australian Flying Corps who died 07/03/1918 STONYHURST COLLEGE BURIAL GROUND United Kingdom ' -----BEGIN REPORT----- :). Back in the 1800's Leutenant Mark Lefting was wounded during a battle, his men presumed him to be dead and left him there when they could not find him. I agree with Sadsac and Simon. Over time the word "locum" evolved into the French word "lieu", which is pronounced in French as it is spelled. Apply for a career in The Royal Canadian Navy Apply Now Why does the word "garage" have so many different pronunciations? I suppose that the usage common in WW1 would have been what I was taught 35 years later. Bryan from ST Pauls says, 'off of'. lieutenant pronunciation royal navy ZmY3ZmYxNjI0ZDBlOTM3ODNiY2UyMmZkNzRjODgzNjZiMDY4YTc5MDE1MDY1 A Lieutenant is a Commissioned Officer within the Royal Navy and is a rank higher than Sub-Lieutenant but subordinate to Lieutenant Commander. In the United States Navy, promotion to lieutenant is governed by United States Department of Defense policies derived from the Defense Officer Personnel Management Act (DOPMA) of 1980. Or, as orthographic u and v were often used interchangeably, Anglophones for some reason hypercorrected their pronunciation to match the orthography, so: /l(j)u:tennt/ (or /l(j)ewtnnt/) Lieutenant or WO III After 1940, the WO III rank was abolished and most of these WO IIIs were commissioned as officers. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. In his world the word is pronounced li-you-tenant, combining the correct pronunciation of the word lieu with tenant. Acting Sub-Lieutenant Simon Ledsham Simon Ledsham values that his opinions and recommendations are taken into consideration by his ships Captain, only 5 weeks into his Naval career. Welcome to EL&U. NGEyNDg1YjNkOGQ1YmM4ZmMxZjJjMjIzOTg0OGIwYTFhMWQ2ZTBjNWQ4Y2Ux Commonwealth and Non-British applicants The Royal Navy have removed the 5 year UK residency requirement for select roles. . Applications of mathematics to warfare What about "Aluminum" as opposed to the original British English "Aluminium"?, "jelly" as opposed to "jam", "color" not "colour", "gray" instead of "grey"? The 1970 printing of the fifth (1969) edition of the Pocket Oxford Dictionary says 'let' in the navy, 'loo' in the USA and 'left' otherwise. WOW! Royal Air Force who died 24/02/1919 LINCOLN (NEWPORT) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' But it seems less likely. One could explain this the influence of non-British immigrants applying standard French pronunciation to a word with apparently obvious French origins. The insignia of an additional half-stripe between the two full stripes of a lieutenant . lieutenant pronunciation royal navy dailyinfo[30]=' B/469 Worker Charles BARLOW Australian Munition Worker who died 30/01/1918 NORTH SHEEN CEMETERY United Kingdom ' Lieutenant is the third commissioned officer rank in the United States Navy, and is comparable to the rank of Captain in the other branches of the Armed Service. Historically, the lieutenants in a ship were ranked in accordance with seniority, with the most senior being termed the first lieutenant and acting as the second-in-command. Fast Forward to `Tot Commiseration Day', bloody Americans, (curse them & their DRY SHIPS which was a fore-runner), they were revolting in 1776 - and have remained so ever since !! http://thebluelinefrontier.com/ Pronunciation of "Lieutenant" . By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. I, personally, have always pronounced it as lieu - tenant - because it simply makes sense to say it this way. [TMP] "Leftenant or Lootenant?" Topic . Reason for different pronunciations of "lieutenant", We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Deciphering two words from their Archaic spellings. This was confirmed to me by Admiral (Rtd) Rufus Mckenzie during a drink in his home, also confirmed by his Lieutenant on HMS/m THRASHER Reggie Fitzgerald. Language changes are speeding up as global communication smooths out the differences. MWU4NTc0MTMwMDVlZTlkY2YwYzQ3MGY4OGE2M2NmODUyODVhODRlODUyNWU4 Usage explanations of natural written and spoken English. But it seems the answer is not known by the best scholars Oxford can produce. Royal Horse Artillery who died 21/02/1917 GUARDS CEMETERY, COMBLES France ' The RAF usually went along with LEFT, as befits RFC heritage. Lieutenant[nb 1] (abbreviated Lt, LT (U.S.), LT(USN), Lieut and LEUT, depending on nation) is a commissioned officer rank in many English-speaking nations' navies and coast guards. Frank Harrison EDINGER Army Chaplains Department who died 26/02/1918 HOLLYBROOK MEMORIAL, SOUTHAMPTON United Kingdom ' "The first reference to a naval Lieutenant is in 1580 when one was borne in each ship as the Captain's understudy. Author has 1.9K answers and 1.2M answer views 3 y Do I need a thermal expansion tank if I already have a pressure tank? I think a lot of younger people in the UK also do so. Maybe that was just RAF folks being corrupted by USAF folks while here in the states, I dunno. Thank you. I thought 'leftenant' was only used by Americans imitating - or caricaturing - British English. Canada. Sub-lieutenant is the equivalent rank in the Royal Canadian Navy. Sub Lieutenant - After one year as a Midshipman, officer cadets are automatically promoted to Sub-Lieutenant. That person stood to the 'left' of the Lieutenant. 2. [3] However, promotion may be quicker if a candidate has previous naval service and commissions from the ranks (upper yardsman/senior upper yardsman).[4]. Actually, David from Birmingham, you're flat wrong about Ben from Denver being a moron because he asserted that British people used to speak like Americans. When factoring in bonuses and additional compensation, a . In American English it is pronouced "lootenant". Accents in the American South, especially in coastal places like Mobile and Charleston, can still resemble English English quite a bit. Forum discussions with the word (s) "lieutenant" in the title: samedi 19 fvrier 1898, Journaux, Montreal (Qubec) :The Herald Publishing Company,1896-1899 (English pronunciations of lieutenant from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus and from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary, both sources Cambridge University Press) What is the definition of lieutenant? Old French is not one language, it's a bunch of dialects. I think you'll find that American English is a simplified and bastardised (once again, "s" not "z") version of British English. Photos on http://www.mightygwyn.eu. I'm still not sure how on earth to pronounce it . dailyinfo[14]=' 16511 Private Albert COLEMAN "D" Coy. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. In minor war vessels, destroyers and frigates, the first lieutenant (either a lieutenant or lieutenant commander) is second in command, executive officer (XO) and head of the executive branch; in larger ships, where a commander of the warfare specialisation is appointed as the executive officer, a first lieutenant (normally a lieutenant commander) is appointed as his deputy. . The OED has several early occurrences spelt with an f including the earliest, 1387, "leeftenaunt".http://oed.com/public/contactus/contact-us. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? The British pronunciation was still used in the USA in 1793 but had almost died out except in military circles by 1893. ant l-ten-nt 1 : an official who acts for a higher official 2 a : first lieutenant b : second lieutenant c : a naval commissioned officer with a rank just below that of lieutenant commander d : a fire or police department officer ranking below a captain More from Merriam-Webster on lieutenant . There are differences in the way it is spelt and spoken but ultimately isn't it great that so many people can share a common language and so be able to develop a common understanding. The Oxford English Dictionary suggests that use of the Middle English forms with f may also have been encouraged by an association of the first element [lieu] with other English words, such as the noun leavea lieutenant being an officer who substitutes for another who is on leave or perhaps one who has the superior officers leave to take command when he is absent or otherwise unable to fulfill his functions. The Royal Navy in World War 2 was a huge and complex organisation spread all across the world. How do/did the RAF pronounce (Flight) Lieutenant? First Lieutenant, HMS H 23 (submarine) (Portsmouth) [tender to HMS Alecto] [obtained aviator's licence (No. great lakes hockey league salary Top Bar. dailyinfo[10]=' 14780 Member Ida Styles HUGHES (Oxford) Womens Royal Air Force who died 10/03/1919 OXFORD (ROSE HILL) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' As the rank structure of navies stabilized, and the ranks of commander, lieutenant commander, and sub-lieutenant (or lieutenant, junior grade in the U.S. services) were introduced, the rank of naval lieutenant became less wide-ranging and is today the equivalent of an army captain. I typed in Covey-Crump and got a wiki entry, which directed me to an archived page click here which gives C-C's answer to the question: L'tenant it is, he says. And lieutenant means place keeper (lit. See if you're eligible and learn more about the joining process. At first, a lieutenant's commission was given only for the particular ship in which he served, but after the loss of HMS Wager in 1741 and the subsequent mutiny, the Royal Navy changed its policy and lieutenants were given more general commissions upon passing their examination.[1]. As to why present day usage is as it is: People can be contrary. Next thing you know they will be having us with DRY SHIPS - Ye Gods ! NWEzNjA5OGIwZDA4MDk1MzliMTE3N2YwNjNjZDVhYjM5MTBmNjljNzQ3Y2Zm The pronunciation being very difficult for English speaker. document.write; In medieval times during a battle The Lord of the manor was in the middle, the head knight on the right and the head tenant was on the left. Add Definition English (UK) Pronunciation Dutch Pronunciation French (Canada) Pronunciation 26 More answers below In pronouncing the word "military", why do Americans say "MILL-uh-tarry" while the English say "MILL-uh-tree"? Shayn M. I don't really know but I love the way the British pronounce certain words, such as schedule, it sounds so much more proper. @ben I was always taught - in the '50s - that "left" was army, "loo" was American, and Le'tenant (emphasis on the "ten" )was RN, and therefore right ! I've heard it used by some old sailors who served in the 30s (long since dead). I should know having served with 21 Signal Regt (AS) in Germany but cant remember. In the phonetics you gave - "either "ltnnt" or "l'tnnt" : - is pronounced like the a in about [u-bowt] or the e in bitte (a sort of uh sound), and ' is showing that the sound following it is stressed. dailyinfo[17]=' PLY/3566 Private Samuel ROBINSON H.M.S. ZTdlYmYzMmVjNmE0MjYyNDgxY2E2MjA3OGE5YjU3MWQ3NjQxMzI0MWUwZGU5 dailyinfo[18]=' 6422 Private Charlie GILBERT 4th Coy. . 3 Barbara Matthews I served in the National Guard and Navy.